Multiculturism, what is it?

[Keith]

workingman said:

All this talk of multiculturism. But what is it? who can define multiculturism. What is it in practice.

An understanding of Multiculturism is well documented
on this board.

I should point out however that Support for multiculturalism remains strongest among the young, down 4 points to 80 per cent, and those earning more than $70,000 a year, down 7points to 78 per cent.

[dougiedodo]

What a pity.

Those who are against our society hide behind the anonymity of a guest and are happy to ignore the wealth of knowledge about our multicultural society that is available on our Dept Of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs site.

These people hide behind the figure of an irresponsible GUEST who lack the guts to become a member of this Board.

These weak livered guests should have their posts removed until they gain the guts of their convictions.

I believe this board will become meaningless unless it stops letting guests post more than three or four posts.

As a member I have been asked to agree to certain conditions that are ignored by many guests.

Why should I remain a member if others do not have to agree to conditions and still get posted.

Johhny said:

Johnny said:

Well you cant contribute anything sensible
and you're to lazy to read past contributions

So there is No point as I thought !!!!!

Author Topic: Multiculturalism, what is it? (Read 32 times)
Johnny
Guest
Re: Multiculturalism, what is it?
« Reply #4 on Today at 8:54am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well documented on this board? Where?

Notice how the most rabid supporters of multiculturalism cannot explain it or provide even one example, outside a restaurant menu. Some will point to principles that were drawn up over 30 years ago, principles that are now redundant, and hope this will get them out of their corner.

Those opposed to the way multiculturalism has been hijacked, misinterpreted, abused and made redundant have provided endless examples of it's failures and have offered various solutions. A start.

The White Australia Policy and Multiculturalism are at opposite ends of the scale. The solution lies somewhere in between.

All we need are people who are not tied at all costs to a failed ideology to get over it and join in the discussion

[frankgardner]

dougiedodo said:

What a pity.

Those who are against our society hide behind the anonymity of a guest and are happy to ignore the wealth of knowledge about our multicultural society that is available on our Dept Of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs site.

These people hide behind the figure of an irresponsible GUEST who lack the guts to become a member of this Board.

These weak livered guests should have their posts removed until they gain the guts of their convictions.

I believe this board will become meaningless unless it stops letting guests post more than three or four posts.

As a member I have been asked to agree to certain conditions that are ignored by many guests.

Why should I remain a member if others do not have to agree to conditions and still get posted.

Johhny said:

Author Topic: Multiculturalism, what is it? (Read 32 times)
Johnny
Guest
Re: Multiculturalism, what is it?
« Reply #4 on Today at 8:54am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well documented on this board? Where?

Notice how the most rabid supporters of multiculturalism cannot explain it or provide even one example, outside a restaurant menu. Some will point to principles that were drawn up over 30 years ago, principles that are now redundant, and hope this will get them out of their corner.

Those opposed to the way multiculturalism has been hijacked, misinterpreted, abused and made redundant have provided endless examples of it's failures and have offered various solutions. A start.

The White Australia Policy and Multiculturalism are at opposite ends of the scale. The solution lies somewhere in between.

All we need are people who are not tied at all costs to a failed ideology to get over it and join in the discussion

Thanks Dougie, for your sane and intelligent post.
I agree..

In the Southwest of Sydney, society IS multicultural, and we are all happily living our lives, rather than loving our lies as the talkback radio jocks have been doing. One of them on 2GB even went so far as to say that Anita Cobby(the nurse who was so cruelly murdered in Bankstown a few years ago) was killed by muslims! This was said on the night of the car-smashing. It was Irish Australians who murdered Miss Cobby; and there was absolutely no link at the time or afterwards, factually or inferred, with muslim australians. This comment, it appears to me, shows the intent of the radio station, in urging discord/violence against muslim australians.

It would appear to me that people like Johnny are stirring the pot, and the personal vilifications from time to time are not what people come to the board to read.
The moderator seems to have been very patient with him, and I agree that Johnny becomes a member or leaves the board.

Johnny seems to be fixated at winning an argument rather than discussing gently.
Merry Xmass.......................and a Happy New Year

[workingman]

So what is multiculturism? Are we all talking about the same thing?

Dougie, you refer to "our multicultural society". What is it about our society that you call it multicultural?

[dougiedodo]

Workingman

Australia's multicultural policies etc are fully explained on the Federal Government Departmental site.

Just type Australian Immigration and multicultural and Indigenous affairs into Google or your search engine and read away.

Like most things in Social Science it cannot be simply explained and requires a little reading to understand what it is.

Also like most social sciences it is not an exact or perfect concept. There will be and are always exceptions that fall outside the ideals of any policy document. It is these exceptions that create most of our conflict in our diverse society.


Any reasonable analysis would say the site describes a policy that is little more than common sense to most reasonable communities that live in a society of many backgrounds and many cultures.

(The word is multiculturalism you have left the al out in your heading.)

[Keith]

frankgardner said:

dougiedodo said:

What a pity.

Those who are against our society hide behind the anonymity of a guest and are happy to ignore the wealth of knowledge about our multicultural society that is available on our Dept Of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs site.

These people hide behind the figure of an irresponsible GUEST who lack the guts to become a member of this Board.

These weak livered guests should have their posts removed until they gain the guts of their convictions.

I believe this board will become meaningless unless it stops letting guests post more than three or four posts.

As a member I have been asked to agree to certain conditions that are ignored by many guests.

Why should I remain a member if others do not have to agree to conditions and still get posted.

Thanks Dougie, for your sane and intelligent post.
I agree..

In the Southwest of Sydney, society IS multicultural, and we are all happily living our lives, rather than loving our lies as the talkback radio jocks have been doing. One of them on 2GB even went so far as to say that Anita Cobby(the nurse who was so cruelly murdered in Bankstown a few years ago) was killed by muslims! This was said on the night of the car-smashing. It was Irish Australians who murdered Miss Cobby; and there was absolutely no link at the time or afterwards, factually or inferred, with muslim australians. This comment, it appears to me, shows the intent of the radio station, in urging discord/violence against muslim australians.

It would appear to me that people like Johnny are stirring the pot, and the personal vilifications from time to time are not what people come to the board to read.
The moderator seems to have been very patient with him, and I agree that Johnny becomes a member or leaves the board.

Johnny seems to be fixated at winning an argument rather than discussing gently.
Merry Xmass.......................and a Happy New Year

Same to you Phil. Theres been 12 firm complaints about his antics and one poster (Chartlie contemplating legal action) which although misguided shows the depth of feeling. I have honestly tried to instil a Multicultural type attitude of tolerance to him.

He is after all in the same position of an unwelcome
ethnic group and in balance needs to at least be allowed a safe and dignified exit.

[dougiedodo]

Johnny,

I have read a number of your posts that show you are not too bright. You seem to ignore the advice given about guests.

Like you I made a number of posts as a guest and had them removed and complained.

Then I became smart and joined as a member.

So far I have not had one post removed as a member.

So I do not understand your problem.

This board has clear advice about guests' posts and invites you to become a member.

I think I have asked you what your problem is in another post.

Why not start your own board if you do not like the rules of this one. After all most things in life has rules.

It is the moderator's board and he makes the rules mate. Take it or leave it.

[Johnny]

Doggiedodo

Read this quickly because Keith will remove it, for it is fact.

Keith (Because it is off topic)

I was once a member of the board, however, one moderator took it upon herself, as a payback on her departure, to post my full e-mail address even though I had indicated that it was to be kept private.


(Keith) THIS IS NOT THAT BOARD and I WAS a Guest Volunteer NOT THE TECHNICAL MODERATOR unlike now where I am (While at that Board I noticed his behaviour)

Tell me Doggie if you had in good faith provided your e-mail address on the condition of anonimity and then found it plastered all over the board resulting in hacking and the loss of important information and out-of-pocket costs to fix, would you be so willing to ever trust the privacy rules and TOS of this messageboard again?

(Keith) Google does.Some pople are net savvy. Some are not I advise against Hotmail and Yahoo addresses with fake identities.

Especially when Keith said he would investigate and get back to me. He hasn't.

(keith) This was a matter between her and him

(keith) And A General reply though of course totally unrelated and hardly pertinant is that SOME MEN respect Women and What is Said to them and may shun other men who feel what is said to a lady is OK

Language like Bowels and Wankers like lately flows free from his Pen. Hardly what any Editor could accept

You can see for yourself (and many posters here have noticed) the venom and hatred and the use of his furphy
to demonise.Duh..people around this place are aware

Now Ill get back to cleaning up the Board

[workingman]

Dougie, mate, if multiculturalism is an inexact and imperfect concept that cannot be simply explained , I would say it you don't know what it is. In fact, I would say with an explanation like that it probably doesn't exist outside of an idea.

What you are saying is that it probably means there are as many different ideas of what multiculuralism is as there are people contemplating it. My idea of multiculuralism may be completely different to yours and Mrs Jones down the road may have a completely different idea again.

If indeed there is such a thing as multiculuralism, it is not given existence by government policy. It must have an existence of its own else it is nothing.

Whether it is an impossible, utopian pipe dream or a plausible situation should make no difference, you should still be able to give a simple explanation.

Once again we can only draw the conclusion that multiculuralism doesn't really exist. It is just a word that has different meanings to different people.

[dougiedodo]

Johnny,

How sad for you.

I can not understand why you still post here if that is your view of this board.

I have not yet come across your problem.

[dougiedodo]

workingman,

Have you visited the Departmental site yet and read the detail under the heading Australian Multicultural Policy?

It is a social policy document and is not a scientific concept. that was all I was saying.

It is clear and little more than commonsense and talks about respect for each others values and respect for the laws of Australia.

I am unable to see why or how you can say Multiculturalism does not exist if you have visited and read some of the referenced site.

There is only one Australian concept and one policy that I know about and it is covered in the referenced site.

My simple explanation is RESPECT for each other and respect for the laws and practices of different cultures that exist beside each other in our Country.

The top of the list is respect for our laws.


As I have said it is much more than Respect it is much more.

If you are serious and if you go to the site you will know what I am on about.

If you want to play games and play politics I am not that interested as I see little point in discussing something if we are not talking about the same Government Policy.

Once you know what you are talking about we could suggest changes in areas and discuss these changes if you are interested.

I am simply trying to answer your question mate. You started this thread.

[Flash]

Johnny said:

Doggiedodo

Read this quickly because Keith will remove it, for it is fact.

Keith (Because it is off topic)

I was once a member of the board, however, one moderator took it upon herself, as a payback on her departure, to post my full e-mail address even though I had indicated that it was to be kept private.


(Keith) THIS IS NOT THAT BOARD. That was the Burning Question and this is the AussieSeek Messageboard and I there WAS a Guest Volunteer NOT THE TECHNICAL MODERATOR unlike now where I am (While at that Board I noticed his behaviour)

Tell me Doggie if you had in good faith provided your e-mail address on the condition of anonimity and then found it plastered all over the board resulting in hacking and the loss of important information and out-of-pocket costs to fix, would you be so willing to ever trust the privacy rules and TOS of this messageboard again?

(Keith) Google does.Some pople are net savvy. Some are not I advise against Hotmail and Yahoo addresses with fake identities.

Especially when Keith said he would investigate and get back to me. He hasn't.

(keith) This was a matter between her and him

(keith) And A General reply though of course totally unrelated and hardly pertinant is that SOME MEN respect Women and What is Said to them and may shun other men who feel what is said to a lady is OK

Language like Bowels and Wankers like lately flows free from his Pen. Hardly what any Editor could accept

You can see for yourself (and many posters here have noticed) the venom and hatred and the use of his furphy
to demonise.Duh..people around this place are aware

Now Ill get back to cleaning up the Board

NOTE: This Board facility (Like all others)provides a facility to all members to talk to other members on an individual basis. The content of those messages are considered private and are not disclosed to me. Nor would I want to be involved in any discussion of their content or their cause and effect

[dougiedodo]

Johnny,

I am sorry mate but you and Keith seem to have a problem that has nothing to do with this subject thread.

I have suggested you have one of two options to end your problem.

Join; or stop posting off subject with your personal gripes and ruining it for others

Remaining and being a pest is not helping your problem.

Like I said, it is sad mate but either play by the rules or please leave.

[Inter]

Workingman and dougiedodo

Good Thoughts there

Colour and Multiculturism has very little to do with it.
A good bloke is a good bloke regardless of colour.

So called "racism" is what get's directed at groups of people who, over a
long period of time, have abused the priviledge of living in a generally
harmonious and civil society.


As it relates to Lebanese it is not about race. Christian Lebanese have
setled in this country exceptionally well and have contributed greatly not
only to its progress, but to its depth.


So have Italians, Greeks, South Africans, British, Yugoslavs, Czechs,
Chinese, Indians and others. They all had their initial problems with
acceptance and that will unfortunately happen whenever you get large groups
being lumped into another country. But most overcame that, and Australians
leant something too, and these groups assimilated into their new country
while still being proud of their old one. Some freely inter-marry, some
don't.


The two stand out exceptions to that positive outcome are large proportions
of the muslim Lebanese and the Vietnamese immigrants. Since they began
arriving in this country about 25 years ago they have made little attempt to
assimilate and have brought with them hatred, crime and a ghetto mentality.
They have a hatred of other Australians, a distain for our rule of law and a
developed arrogance for having been largely immune from the attention of the
state polic and pandered to by their state governments.


Other Australians see this happening and resentment builds up. Not
resentment towards migrants who have assimilated and value their new
country - but to the ones who play the system and try to hit the soft
underbelly of a largely tolerant society.


The answer? I don't have one. We've probably gone too far down the track.

INTER

[dougiedodo]

inter,

A good and thoughtful post.

If those who come to live with us cannot respect us why should we respect them?

Why should we let them stay?

Why not send them back to where they think they can respect the system if that is their wish?

[Inter]

dougiedodo said:

inter,

A good and thoughtful post.

If those who come to live with us cannot respect us why should we respect them?

Why should we let them stay?

Why not send them back to where they think they can respect the system if that is their wish?

WE have to be more selective on who we let in I guess

But we can hardly do an Idi Amin and send away those here who cause trouble

We must no longer show lenience to the criminal groups in those communities that wont asimilate

[workingman]

Very good, we have a start! Dougie says multiculturalism is about respect for other cultures.

I really do not think multiculturalism has anything to do with law or government policy though. Surely it is an idea or concept apart from law or government policy. What if laws and policies are different in different countries (which they are)?

To incorporate law and gov. policy into the explanation/definition of multiculturalism would be to say that there are different definitions of multiculturalism. If that is the case, once again we can only conclude there is no such thing as 'multiculturalism', only a group of different and conflicting ideas, all purporting to be multiculturalism.

Is there a single, simple explanation/definition. Dougie has tossed in the word 'respect'.

[dougiedodo]

Inter,

I never knew that Australian laws requires special consideration or leniency to immigrants.

Do you know of cases where this has been done?

It seems that special more severe laws were created just for the pack Rapists etc.

[dougiedodo]

Workingman,

I am unable to understand where you are coming from in your last post.

Are you talking about Australian Multiculturalism policies or the General Concept of Multiculturalism.

From my understanding the concept of Multiculturalism can be compared to LAWS of the ROAD.

Namely every country that uses multiculturalism as a social integration policy has their own Multicultural Policies. Ours in Australia are different from the USA and those of the UK.

Most use the common thread but twist them to cater for their national requirements.

The respect for laws I am talking about are the common international practice of respecting the laws of the country you live in.

Have you visited our Australian Policy site yet?

We are talking about POLICIES etc as far as I know there is no Australian law about our Multicultural Policies. Do you know of ant?

Can we begin to be critical of our policies and be talking about the same concepts?

I am happy to discuss our policies because I believe they can now be advanced and have my own views on how this should happen.

[Inter]

dougiedodo said:

Inter,

I never knew that Australian laws requires special consideration or leniency to immigrants.

Do you know of cases where this has been done?

It seems that special more severe laws were created just for the pack Rapists etc.

Maybe moving beyond
multiculturalism what ever it means is the answer

Because while
multiculturalism had served us well in welcoming and accommodating
millions of immigrants from all over the world over the past five
decades, it was time that for the good of all society
that we took the next step: progressive integration.

We cant leave Multicultirism alone. We have to Upgrade it

And not to take this step would be to "sleepwalk into
segregation" as different communities became further entrenched and
increasingly isolated from each other.

I suggest that
we should remember that multiculturalism was meant to be a means to an
end, rather than an end in itself.

And as a means to an end, it's day
has come.


I do not suggest that immigrants should be "assimilated" into
OZ culture. This, of course, would be a retrograde step. Rather, a
common set of values should be forged drawing upon what has
traditionally been important to us together with the enormously
valuable contribution of its millions of migrants. This can be a
continuous process.


Fundamentally, progressive integration is about creating a single
cohesive community where racial, ideological and religious diversity
flourishes yet is supported by a common set of cultural principles
taken both from the home society and valuable immigrant contributions.
It's not about homogeneity, but it is about a basic single shared
feeling of community. Multiculturalism, on the other hand, emphasises
and exaggerates differences rather than common aspirations."
Some cultures are very, very different and are in
fact incompatible in terms of existing side by side in a peaceful
cohesive society
Before multi-culturalism grew into a justifcation for parrallel worlds
in the shadows of Australian apathy Australia very successfully
maintained acceptance of immigration by impressing upon all the
significance of a respect for the home society.


Why? Like always Australians, forged in a tough unforgiving country
whose wealth was based on working with, benefiting from, and sometimes
yielding to, nature, looked for practical solutions that worked and
guarded against the "social unrest flood" that human nature can throw
up.


And it made practical sense to elevate the home society from the
society left by immigrants for two reasons:


1. If culture is formed here it is probably matured and evolved to be
in harmony with local conditions and is more suited and sustainable.


2. Given 1 if another mob come bringing a culture straight off the
boat from somewhere else and it can't co-exist with local culture for
whatever reason, the overall result for all is better if the new
arrivals change rather than the locals with regards that aspect of
culture.


Ramming multi-culturalism down peoples throats has undone all that.
And how did we get immigration that caused the Lebanese Crime Gangs
problem. How did that happen?


And the level of immigration - they tell me infrastructure is so thin
now - that more and more people have sucked what we had in the kitty
dry - that we need tolls on the Pacific Highway.


But I like the thrust of the proposition you put. The truth is it's
what Australia was pre multi-culturalism with one last step, and it's
a step I'd like you to consider.


The introduced cultural practise must fit or be accepted by the home
society. You have to have a pecking order. Or a pecking order will
develop. [e.g. The Lebanese Crime Gangs do better at the
multi-cultural game that locals]. And the pecking order needs to be
based on what is practical - as per the points I made early in this
passage - because that keeps race and culture out of it.


Any way you've made some interesting posts and all the best for Xmass
and the new year
.

[Inter]

dougiedodo said:

Inter,

I never knew that Australian laws requires special consideration or leniency to immigrants.

Do you know of cases where this has been done?

It seems that special more severe laws were created just for the pack Rapists etc.

And Good on a crack down on rapists

A Whole Industry of Multiculturism costs Heaps $$$$$$

Look at SBS Television and I do.
There are also some great News shows on it.

[dougiedodo]

inter,

I thank you for your comments and you too are thinking about a stable and secure future for this wonderful land of ours.

You too enjoy the fellowship of this time of celebration and family time when we all are thrust into a mix of our own making with the wonderment for our young who will take what we leave for their future.

[Working man]

So that's it from Dougie. Multiculturalism IS the government policies of multiculturism.

Dougie says that there is no ONE explanation of multiculturalism, it is different for everyone. Or in other words, there is no such THING as multiculturalism, it is just a catch frase for gov. policies that have something to do with immigrants.

I disagree Dougie. I think there is a definition of multiculturalism. You cannot debate a thing if you can't define it.

There are so many threads on this board about multiculturalism. What I am trying to do is find out if we are all talking about the same thing. So come on, anymore takers?

So far it looks as though we are indeed all talking about something different. If that is the case, every multicultural discussion on this board has just beem rendered meaningless.

(damn! forgot to log in again)

[Flash]

What is Multiculturism? Some Do seem to know

Australia is paying the price for turning away from multiculturalism, writes Allan Patience in the Age.

An intelligent response to the Sydney events would be the revival of one of Australia's greatest achievements - multiculturalism.

The multiculturalism that began unfolding from the late 1960s was about people coming from different cultural backgrounds and learning to share their stories, to understand each other's points of view, to sympathise with the hardships they faced in coming to Australia, and to discover the advantages of living in harmony.

This revolved around a clear obligation for everyone born here, or choosing to live here, to respect certain core Australian values.

These include allegiance to the practices of democratic government and the rule of law, believing in a fair go, just recognition for essential and voluntary work, a wonderfully irreverent sense of humour, security within and outside the country, a preference for egalitarianism, and a commitment to the right of everyone to fair access to education, health, employment, and housing.

These core values were the foundations on which all sound multicultural policies were built in the 1970s and 1980s. This was especially true of government initiatives on ethnic welfare services, education, SBS radio and television, and the sadly defunct Australian Institute of Multicultural Affairs.

At their best, these policies made Australia a world leader. For a time, Australia's rates of inter-ethnic violence were among the lowest in the world and ethnic out-marriage rates were relatively high, leading to human links across cultural boundaries. The country was widely admired for its multicultural achievements.

What we failed to do was to establish how and why these achievements were so successful.

Good multicultural researchers were hung out to dry by successive governments. A lot of excellent policy knowledge and experience was lost.

What multiculturalists do understand is that cultural change, if it's managed well, can be enriching as cultures rub up against each other.

If people really want to be positive Australian citizens they must understand that all living cultures are always changing. Ethnic and religious leaders sometimes have to accept the responsibility to advocate positive change in their own communities.

It is also important to remind ourselves of what multiculturalism is not. It is not a defence of ethnic narcissism. Ethnic groups that believe they possess exclusive and unchanging identities superior to other cultures have no place in Australian society.

Multiculturalism has never been an apology for patriarchy or for limiting human rights. It has nothing in common with mob violence, sexual predators, payback killings, religious intolerance, racial bigotry or acts of terrorism.

The architects of Australian multiculturalism warned against ethnic minorities being excluded from mainstream society because of economic, educational, language or cultural barriers.

If policies are not in place to stop this happening, people in the minority groups will soon be over-represented in poverty, unemployment, crime, and similar statistics.

Policies to counter structural inequality include the provision of English language and skills training programs, accessible translations and interpreting services, and well-targeted community welfare programs. They also require effective public education programs for the wider community so that mainstream citizens understand the problems minorities face and what to do to alleviate these problems.

The past decade has seen a sustained and deliberate white-anting of Australia's multicultural achievements. The campaign has been fostered by neo-conservative elements in the Federal Government and inflamed by shock-jocks on talkback radio. The ugly consequences of these opportunistic politics are evident in the riots in Sydney's south and west. If unchecked, the disturbances will spread.

There is a crimson thread of racism still running through Australia's hard culture. There is no point in denying this. Our racism has to be confronted intelligently, through wise education programs, sensitive legislation, and a bill of rights. And it will never be dealt with until an acceptable apology for the stolen generation is offered and a treaty with Aborigines is finally signed and sealed.

What more needs to be done?

First, political parties must abandon electoral strategies that promote fear and loathing. Second, research has to be conducted into flawed and failed social policies that are aggravating the shutting out of ethnic minorities from mainstream Australian society, and new policies - some of which will need to be quite radical - will have to be implemented.

Third, a new Institute of Multicultural Affairs needs to be established, to conduct cogent public education programs about our multicultural achievements and how they can be sustained and progressed. Rather than be made to stand alone, it should be placed in a university that has the resources and community connections to ensure its survival.

Over the past decade there has been too much making scapegoats of minorities for cheap electoral advantage and macho political point-scoring. It has serious long-term implications for Australia's survival as a coherent and decent society. The warning signals must be heeded.

Professor Allan Patience is a visiting fellow in the research school of Pacific and Asian studies, Australian National University, Canberra.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


He Said "The architects of Australian multiculturalism warned against ethnic minorities being excluded from mainstream society because of economic, educational, language or cultural barriers."

But what happens if a minority group excludes itself as with the violent uinchecked behaviour of a small group of young troublesome Islamic Lebanese

This is their problen

Not a problem of Multiculturism but we must set up a task force to concentrate of making this group like all of us and defeat the alienenation from Australian Society

A Good start would be a close look at the demonisation
targeted at them by the Shock Jocks

Keith

[Flash]

admin said:

What is Multiculturism? Some Do seem to know

Australia is paying the price for turning away from multiculturalism, writes Allan Patience in the Age.

An intelligent response to the Sydney events would be the revival of one of Australia's greatest achievements - multiculturalism.

The multiculturalism that began unfolding from the late 1960s was about people coming from different cultural backgrounds and learning to share their stories, to understand each other's points of view, to sympathise with the hardships they faced in coming to Australia, and to discover the advantages of living in harmony.

This revolved around a clear obligation for everyone born here, or choosing to live here, to respect certain core Australian values.

These include allegiance to the practices of democratic government and the rule of law, believing in a fair go, just recognition for essential and voluntary work, a wonderfully irreverent sense of humour, security within and outside the country, a preference for egalitarianism, and a commitment to the right of everyone to fair access to education, health, employment, and housing.

These core values were the foundations on which all sound multicultural policies were built in the 1970s and 1980s. This was especially true of government initiatives on ethnic welfare services, education, SBS radio and television, and the sadly defunct Australian Institute of Multicultural Affairs.

At their best, these policies made Australia a world leader. For a time, Australia's rates of inter-ethnic violence were among the lowest in the world and ethnic out-marriage rates were relatively high, leading to human links across cultural boundaries. The country was widely admired for its multicultural achievements.

What we failed to do was to establish how and why these achievements were so successful.

Good multicultural researchers were hung out to dry by successive governments. A lot of excellent policy knowledge and experience was lost.

What multiculturalists do understand is that cultural change, if it's managed well, can be enriching as cultures rub up against each other.

If people really want to be positive Australian citizens they must understand that all living cultures are always changing. Ethnic and religious leaders sometimes have to accept the responsibility to advocate positive change in their own communities.

It is also important to remind ourselves of what multiculturalism is not. It is not a defence of ethnic narcissism. Ethnic groups that believe they possess exclusive and unchanging identities superior to other cultures have no place in Australian society.

Multiculturalism has never been an apology for patriarchy or for limiting human rights. It has nothing in common with mob violence, sexual predators, payback killings, religious intolerance, racial bigotry or acts of terrorism.

The architects of Australian multiculturalism warned against ethnic minorities being excluded from mainstream society because of economic, educational, language or cultural barriers.

If policies are not in place to stop this happening, people in the minority groups will soon be over-represented in poverty, unemployment, crime, and similar statistics.

Policies to counter structural inequality include the provision of English language and skills training programs, accessible translations and interpreting services, and well-targeted community welfare programs. They also require effective public education programs for the wider community so that mainstream citizens understand the problems minorities face and what to do to alleviate these problems.

The past decade has seen a sustained and deliberate white-anting of Australia's multicultural achievements. The campaign has been fostered by neo-conservative elements in the Federal Government and inflamed by shock-jocks on talkback radio. The ugly consequences of these opportunistic politics are evident in the riots in Sydney's south and west. If unchecked, the disturbances will spread.

There is a crimson thread of racism still running through Australia's hard culture. There is no point in denying this. Our racism has to be confronted intelligently, through wise education programs, sensitive legislation, and a bill of rights. And it will never be dealt with until an acceptable apology for the stolen generation is offered and a treaty with Aborigines is finally signed and sealed.

What more needs to be done?

First, political parties must abandon electoral strategies that promote fear and loathing. Second, research has to be conducted into flawed and failed social policies that are aggravating the shutting out of ethnic minorities from mainstream Australian society, and new policies - some of which will need to be quite radical - will have to be implemented.

Third, a new Institute of Multicultural Affairs needs to be established, to conduct cogent public education programs about our multicultural achievements and how they can be sustained and progressed. Rather than be made to stand alone, it should be placed in a university that has the resources and community connections to ensure its survival.

Over the past decade there has been too much making scapegoats of minorities for cheap electoral advantage and macho political point-scoring. It has serious long-term implications for Australia's survival as a coherent and decent society. The warning signals must be heeded.

Professor Allan Patience is a visiting fellow in the research school of Pacific and Asian studies, Australian National University, Canberra.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


He Said "The architects of Australian multiculturalism warned against ethnic minorities being excluded from mainstream society because of economic, educational, language or cultural barriers."

But what happens if a minority group excludes itself as with the violent uinchecked behaviour of a small group of young troublesome Islamic Lebanese

This is their problen

Not a problem of Multiculturism but we must set up a task force to concentrate of making this group like all of us and defeat the alienenation from Australian Society

A Good start would be a close look at the demonisation
targeted at them by the Shock Jocks

Keith

RESIDENTS of Mosman and Woollahra have joined those in the Sutherland Shire as among the Sydney people least tolerant of cultural diversity and multicultural values, a map of the city's racial attitudes reveals.

Two weeks after the Cronulla race riots, tens of thousands of people returned to Sydney's beaches for Christmas Day, while church leaders called on Australians to be tolerant and to take responsibility for the violence in the beach suburbs.

Now researchers have produced a map - based on a survey of 1800 Sydney residents - that they hope can be used in programs to counter racism.

The survey is part of work by Associate Professor Jim Forrest, of Macquarie University; Kevin Dunn, of the University of NSW; and others, from which Professor Forrest has produced the map.

Professor Forrest said the least accepting groups were in outer suburbs where populations are mostly solidly Anglo. But the least tolerant also include culturally diverse places such as Liverpool and "old" wealth areas such as Mosman and Woollahra. Waverley, which adjoins Woollahra but is more culturally diverse, is among the most tolerant.

Among the most tolerant are people living in the local government areas Sydney, South Sydney, Leichhardt, Auburn and Pittwater.

Professor Forrest said wealthy, better-educated areas of northern Sydney were quite tolerant and inner-city areas highly tolerant.

Less tolerant areas include outer locations such as Gosford and Campbelltown, but also culturally mixed areas such as Bankstown and Ryde. Bankstown has a substantial Muslim population, while Ryde has many Chinese and Koreans. Culturally diverse areas such as Parramatta, Marrickville and Penrith, and the suburbs Hurstville, Randwick and Botany, are tolerant.

At St Mary's Cathedral yesterday, Sydney's Catholic Archbishop, George Pell, confronted the race riots. At a Christmas Mass where there was standing room only, he noted the high number of visitors to the cathedral in the lead-up to Christmas. "I wonder if it was a reaction to the Cronulla riots … a rejection of cowardly violence."

The head of the Australian Anglican Church, Phillip Aspinall, suggested a resurgence in church attendance might be attributed to the "uncertain times", noting the race riots and last year's tsunami. He called on "every Australian" to take responsibility for the violence in the riots. He challenged the "very way Australians define themselves" and encouraged them to get on with people "we don't know, love or like".

In the survey on racial attitudes, residents were asked to respond to two statements: 1) It is a good thing for society to be made up of different cultures. 2) Australia is weakened by different ethnicities sticking to their old ways.

Responses to other statements by 5056 people in Queensland and NSW immediately after the September 11 attacks showed 12 per cent held beliefs akin to racial supremacy. More than 13 per cent believed "races" should be kept sexually separate. About the same ratio admitted being racially prejudiced.

Dr Dunn told a conference this month: "There is a strong and ever-urgent need for the realities of racism to be acknowledged. Without doing so, it is impossible to develop anti-racism."

But Professor Forrest said Australia was generally less racist than most societies. Similar studies in Britain had revealed one in five to be openly racist. He believed the US figure was about one in three.

At a Christmas Mass in Richmond, in Melbourne, Father Peter Norden reflected on Sydney's race riots, saying a glance at the crib would reveal "some Middle Eastern looking gents, carrying some suspicious looking parcels … They certainly wouldn't have been allowed on Cronulla Beach in the last two weeks."

SMH

[FAS]

Multiculturalism is an unsound political theory, advocated by liberals,
academics, media personnel, social theorists, government officials, and
politicians. While it is supported by a majority of those people, it is
actually opposed by the overall majority of Australians.

It is a deliberate policy to actively maintain, support and build foreign
cultures in Australia, to the direct detriment of the Australian identity,
culture and way of life.


Instead of allowing immigrants, and their native-born offspring, to
naturally assimilate into the Australian culture, governments are knowingly
creating bases of foreign culture in this country. These deliberately
divisive policies are carried out in two areas.


First, through the multicultural policies themselves, whereby foreign
cultures are sustained and encouraged. Large sums of money are granted to
"ethnic" organisations, which boosts the abilities of such organisations to
service and perpetuate their "ethnic culture". In schools, multicultural
policies are actively pursued, whereby children are encouraged to identify
with their "ethnicity", rather than to become "fully" Australian. Many, if
not all, aspects of public life are touched in a myriad of ways by official
multicultural policies, all of which actually encourage a "them and us"
attitude between "new Australians" and "old Australians".


Secondly, immigration policies are based upon continuing mass immigration,
which gives foreign cultures in Australia the ability to self-sustain their
separate development.


These deliberately divisive policies are turning Australians against each
other, and are creating a country populated by a collection of separate
communities, instead of a nation populated by a nationally unified society.


Multicultural Australia has thus become a breeding ground for a whole range
of "micro-nations", each with their own political and cultural agendas.
Indeed, Geoffrey Blainey has warned that "multiculturalism ... is a new form
of colonialism, in which we are the colony of every nation on earth". As
Australia struggles to encompass the many little Chinas, little Japans,
little Italys, and little Croatias, all determined to preserve their own
national, cultural and ethnic peculiarities (including not only "lovely"
dancing and foods, but sometimes strange, if not barbaric, customs; as well
as some extremely strong ethnic hatreds), it is very easy to see the
disunity created among these ethnic communities; as well as between them and
those who see themselves as "Australians", foremost loyal to Australia.


Large-scale immigration programmes run the risk that ethnic enclaves will
develop, a risk that is heightened by multicultural policies which give
immigrants "little incentive to learn English and become socially and
economically integrated with those outside their group". Such ethnic ghettos
can provide a stimulus to the creation of "ethnic gangs that prey on their
own community". Another dark side of this situation is that such enclaves
"provide ideal bases for groups to engage in politically motivated violence.
Indeed, the conflict over the former Yugoslavia has in Australia resulted in
several incidents, including 11 unsolved fire bombings". The ethnic and
political rivalry witnessed between the Greek and Macedonian communities in
Australia involved "a demonstration outside Parliament House by 60,000
Greeks, a brawl at a soccer match and firebombings and vandalism", but such
incidents are minor - compared with the potential for widespread
inter-ethnic rivalry and violence. Such a situation is indicative of what
multiculturalism can bring about.


As Professor Blainey has stated: "Recent governments emphasize the merits of
a multicultural society and ignore the dangers. And yet the evidence is
clear that many multicultural societies have failed and that the human cost
of the failure has been high. Many of our refugees actually come from
multicultural societies that are faltering or in disarray". Also, Professor
Loring Danforth has admitted that "Ironically, Australia's own commitment to
multiculturalism may also encourage immigrants to involve themselves in the
national conflicts of their homelands. This policy of multiculturalism ...
defines people in ethnic categories and makes it possible for them to
maintain their identities as Italians, Greeks, or Macedonians.
Multiculturalism, with its emphasis on community languages and ethnic media,
promotes the development of these ethnic identities and impedes the
development of a strong Australian national identity."


We do not need a crystal ball to see where multiculturalism will lead us.
The future will bring a vast amount of inter-ethnic rivalry and resultant
clashes, even leading to race riots reminiscent of those clashes in the UK
and USA. Australia faces the spectre of being another disunified
"multicultural" society like Sri Lanka, South Africa, Northern Ireland,
Lebanon, the former Yugoslavia, Fiji, etc.; not to mention the USA and the
UK, with their continually strained communities, and occasional race riots.
The prospects of such a disunified nation are appalling.

[dougiedodo]

FAS and Fred,

Both your posts are a good read but they are not addressing the Australian policies of Australian multiculture as set out in our Dept of Immigration etc website.

Even today these policies have been reduced from what they were and almost made useless by the current governments limited support.

I suggest you read the excellent article in the Melbourne AGE newspaper REPRODUCED here as reply 26 above and written by Allan Patience.

Reply 27 is also a good follow up.


Fred you have expressed a common error of understanding what multicultural policies do when you suggested they sustain other cultures in a new country.

They in reality do the exact opposite as they allow people from different cultures to consult and talk about trying to fit in with the new culture in their new country.

They aim to break up the enclaves and get people out mixing.

If you looked at the details of the $2.5m of community project funding on Multiculture Projects you would see that they are aimed to bring people from different cultures together and try to reduce the barriers. This is the reality of our Australian multicultural policies.

These projects help newcomers integrate into their new communities and provide advise about Australian customs and laws


FAS,

Could I suggest your whole post is Anti Multicultural and all the examples of countries you give in your last paragraph are in no way related to failed multicultural policies.

The aim and thrust of all Australia's multicultural policies are to allow immigrants to discover the advantages of living in harmony respecting each other and respecting the laws and traditions of Australia while they are allowed to celebrate elements of their own culture which we Australians also respect.

It is as simple as that.

[MAO]

Multiculturalism is a buzzword used to shove down non-assimilating ethnic
groups that victimize the majority groups.


The same retards who support multiculturalism are the same ones in here that
are the first to call others "rednecks or inbreeds" common ethnic slurs used
against rural White Christian people.


So much for the typical intolerance from the left (or whatever you world
nuts call each other in your own country)


The biggest supporters of multiculturalism are those that have enough $$$ to
insure their neighborhoods , schools and businesses are the most exclusive
of them all.


Let's guess how much multiculturalism exist in the Ted Kennedy's million
dollar mansion districts.
I bet not too much..........



"ferdie" <[e-mail]> wrote in message


news:43af1aa8$0$26350$[e-mail]...



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> "ferdie" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
> news:43af159c$0$26317$[e-mail]...


>> "Tom Wilson" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
>> news:[e-mail]...
>>> ferdie <[e-mail]> wrote:


>>>> While it is supported by a majority of those people, it is
>>>> actually opposed by the overall majority of Australians.


>>> Where is your credible proof that it's unsound? (not usual hysteria, but
>>> credible evidence from a non-bias source).


>>> Where is your proof that it actually opposed by the overall majority of
>>> Australians? Do you have any credible surveys?


>> Look around the world - Are you blind ?


>> There has NEVER been a referendum on MC
>> Read Malcom Fraser's book and you'll know why.
>> i.e. Australians DONT want it.


>> Forget polls from the herald


> The Continuing Tantrum


> Sour Thoughts On Multiculturalism


> I guess somebody needs to explain multiculturalism to me. It's because I'm
> from West Virginia. We're slow up in the mountains, and dim, and have
> trouble understanding things that don't make any sense at all.


> Be patient. Explain multiculturalism to me in block letters.


> If my history's right, all kinds of folk used to come to America from
> every whichaplace. (I'm not sure that's a word even in West Virginia.)
> They'd go off to a ghetto and be miserable. You'd have Eye-talians and
> Irish and Jews and Scowegians, people from every place there was and
> probably from some there wasn't. Weren't.


> Before long they'd start marrying right and left, apparently without
> looking. Pretty soon you had people named Heidi Torricelli O'Feinstein.
> They weren't sure what they were any more, so they decided to be Americans
> and not worry about it. It made good sense, because America was where they
> were. This gamboling about in the gene pool produced accidental
> monoculturalism, and it worked pretty well.


> Hostilities died out because they were too complicated to remember. I
> mean, if the Germans were supposed to hate the Poles, and you were half
> German and your grandmother was a quarter Polish, then you had to hate an
> eighth of your grandmother--and no man could tell which eighth. The
> accounting alone made it impractical. People began to get along because it
> was the easy way out.


> It works still. I'm mostly English, and months have gone by since I've
> shot at an Irishman.


> But now, if I understand aright, we're going to be multicultural, and stay
> split up in different tribes and act like it's a good idea. (Separate but
> equal. Didn't we do that before?) We're going to have white, black,
> Hispanic, and Asian nations all in the same country. And we're all going
> to live together in peace and love and mutual respect, and have drumming
> circles and smoke ditchweed together.


> Now, granted I'm simpleminded. I don't understand higher psychology. My
> school learning is pretty weak, like moonshine that didn't get run through
> the radiator enough. Still, before we get too multicultural, I figure we
> ought to see how it works for other folk.


> Start with Canada, since it's stuck to us and can't get away. Canada has a
> pretty good dose of Frenchmen in Quebec, and they've been nothing but
> trouble. The country's always about to break apart because nobody can
> stand the French, and the French hate everybody. They'll never get used to
> each other.


> Now, you might think, OK, that's just the Canadians. Maybe their brains
> froze or something. Maybe multiculturalism works better for other people.


> Well, how about Mexico, which is multicultural in Indians? Last I heard,
> Mexicans and Indians were having a shooting war in Chiapas. So far, they
> haven't done much in the line of drumming circles. Maybe some scalpings,
> though.


> Of course there's Yugoslavia, the world's motingator case of
> multiculturalism. You can't get much more multicultural. They've got
> cultures nobody can spell, all cutting each other's throats. So far
> they've produced nothing but shrapnel.


> I begin to suspect that multiculturalism works fine, soon as one side
> kills the other off.


> And in Indonesia the Indonesians butcher the East Timorese, and in Rwanda
> the Tutus chop up the Hutsis (or Tootsies, or somebody), and in the Sudan
> the Moslem northerners kill the southern animists, and Iraq gasses its
> Kurds.


> In Malaysia the Malays can't stand the Chinese. In Ireland the Protestants
> and Catholics think they have to blow each other up every little while,
> like leaky air mattresses. The Vietnamese kick around the Montagnards, the
> Cambodians slaughter their Vietnamese, the Japanese hate their Koreans,
> and in South Africa the whites and blacks claw at each other like cats in
> a bag. In Israel the Arabs and Jews are no end multicultural, between
> explosions. The Christians and Moslems go at it in Lebanon, and the
> Guatemalans torture their Indians, the Tamils and Sinhalese in Ceylon
> shoot each other in droves, and. . . .


> Yep, this multiculturalism business works pretty well. No one can deny it.
> Pretty soon there won't be anybody left.


> While we're at it, how has multiculturalism done in the U. S. of A.? So
> far, it's the worst problem we've got, unless Hillary gets elected. We
> have a white European country with an utterly incompatible, inassimilable
> black African culture spread through it. We spend most of our national
> energy trying to straighten that one out. We've got crime, welfare, racial
> hatred, riots, burned cities, weird political stuff like affirmative
> action, constant lawsuits, fear, loathing, and ill will.


> I don't guess we better try any more multiculturalism just yet. We don't
> have enough guns.


> But that's just me. I hear now we're gonna ghettoize the Hispanics instead
> of assimilating them, so we can have more riots and cities going up in
> flames, and about a dozen generations of hostility, and car bombs if we
> get really multicultural. Hooboy. I've never heard of a better idea.


> Except any other idea at all.


> Fact is, people of different flavors just don't get along very well. Maybe
> we ought to. Maybe we all ought to love each other. Maybe we ought to be
> reasonable, though that's stretching it. But we aren't going to. We never
> have. So we better get busy and try to be one kind of people. That would
> be the smart thing to do. Still, it's worth a try.


> Why do we deliberately adopt a guaranteed recipe for divisiveness? You'd
> think a track record of unrelieved multicultural disaster would be some
> slight contraindication to more of it. If you think that, you obviously
> don't have any experience of American politics. Still, you might ask, who
> is it that wants to inflict a multicultural morass on innocent Americans?


> First, Democratic politicians trying to lock in voting blocs.


> Second, the whole lemming pack of post-hippie professors, intellectuals,
> feminists, self-serving racial dissensionists, and aggressive vegetarians
> who have the touchiest of feely ideas and thirty seconds of experience in
> the real world. Thirty seconds aggregate, I mean. Why are they doing it?


> Hard to say. They give me the impression of never having gotten over
> adolescence. They've confused America with their parents, and they're mad
> at it, and they're throwing a fit.


> Me, I'm going back to Wheeling, where people are monocultural and talk the
> same and have the same DNA, and shoot pool in low dives. I mean, a bar
> fight at least makes some sense.


> Fred



___________________________________________________________________________

[dougiedodo]

MAO,

An interesting read but very little to do with the policies and the reality of a multicultural society.

If you do not want to live in a society where the past of each group and their cultures are respected by all

:-and the laws of the land are respected by all,

:- and all take on the responsibility of guaranteeing that we are all living in a free liberal society

:- and there is no discrimination of members of the society because of their race, culture, religion; language, gender or place of birth;

You should tell us how you want to live and in what society you want to live.


What I have covered above are the basic policies of a multicultural society as practiced in Australia.


They are not perfect and only represent the AIMS of a good harmonious society.

Tell us about the sort of society you want.

[workingman]

Lots of interesting replys but still no one has attempted to actually provide a definition of 'multiculturalism'.

It is apprent there are two main camps though. The emotively driven 'lets all love one another' camp and the realist 'this will never work' camp.